00:24:26 <NamelessCoder> could you give the workspaces support a test drive?
00:26:30 <Outdoorsman> Yes I neeeeed to do that. Something interesting... I had lightning take out a NIC on my server yesterday. I found out the hard way that no one in small towns carry internal components in stock any more.
00:27:05 <NamelessCoder> damn, so you had to buy some usb crap?
00:27:27 <Outdoorsman> I finally found a work around but it took a long time. Yes, I got a USB WIFI card.
00:27:52 <NamelessCoder> few things worse than network issues you can't fix
00:28:17 <Outdoorsman> The problem was I was using VMware VCenter to control that machine.
00:28:55 <NamelessCoder> I've had every problem imaginable on headless machines and it *always* sucks
00:29:16 <Outdoorsman> I had 5 working ports available but with version 5.5 I have to manage it from VCenter and couldn't do that because it was the WAN port that went down.
00:29:48 <NamelessCoder> it's obvious advise too late, but you really should get yourself a surge protector
00:30:02 <NamelessCoder> I've got two, one which also filters the dsl
00:30:37 <Outdoorsman> I just thought I was immune to computer issues since I have a background in electrical engineering :)
00:34:35 <NamelessCoder> just tested it, seems to work on my machine
00:34:36 <Outdoorsman> Yes. I had them load Chrome and it happend there too. I was using fluidcontent_core as well. They left before I could disable it and make sure it wasn't dependent on that extension.
00:35:40 <NamelessCoder> I also have that ext loaded, of course
00:36:52 <Outdoorsman> Never mind. The screenshot they sent me doesn't have enough resoultion to show anything. Anyway, once you click the green plus icon, the options that come up with all the tabs had only one tab with only 4 options which appeared to all be plugins instead of main content stuff.
00:37:51 <Outdoorsman> I didn't clear my server cache yet... I've seen it look like that before. But this time, it was working for me and not her.
00:37:53 <NamelessCoder> the URL used when adding content *does* contain some freaky stuff, is quite long and even uses a hash in the location. Perhaps some software on the machine was acting as proxy, somehow killing the request or response...
00:38:33 <Outdoorsman> Wow that's a far out thought, wouldn't have considered that.
00:38:55 <NamelessCoder> I've not seen that happen... but there's a chance if you're on dev versions that changed wizardTab -> options.group
00:39:01 <Outdoorsman> I'll do a little more debug to isolate the issue and get back on it. She's not here to do testing with now.
00:39:01 <NamelessCoder> that could have some effect
00:39:30 <NamelessCoder> if all else fails, install "Little Snitch" trial and dump the request and response. I'll then compare it to one I know to be working.
00:40:10 <NamelessCoder> it used to be in TYPO3 that using the hostname "localhost" for sites caused some problems with redirects internally, but I assume you don't use that as hostname
00:40:59 <Outdoorsman> I'm using htaccess to block it from public but am using actual domain names.
00:41:09 <Outdoorsman> I might have to ask you more if it comes to that. What is the wizardTab -> options.group?
00:42:20 <NamelessCoder> I wrote a bit about it on http://fluidtypo3.org/blog/news/flux-71-changes.html
00:42:33 <Outdoorsman> Okay, thanks. Hey have a good one... get some sleep.
00:42:46 <NamelessCoder> not time for sleep yet hehe
00:43:49 <Outdoorsman> Wow that's a great article! I'll have to digest that a little more slowly after work.
00:45:10 <Outdoorsman> I also just notice the FCC doesn't have spacing options for above/below CE's. I'm guessing there was a long discussion about that?
00:46:10 <Outdoorsman> It's inline styling I know, but it's useful in just pushing things around.
00:47:50 <NamelessCoder> back in the days of CSC support for such spacing was either inline stylesheets (unclean!) or auto-generated stylesheets with complex classes. In modern site styling this simply has no place whatsoever - such laying out should be simple css classes on each container, and that's what FCC supports currently.
00:48:53 <NamelessCoder> this could be my developer brain assuming too much, but if an editor sees this: "Content settings -> Container -> classes -> option value "space-below-2em" he'd immediately know what that does
00:49:00 <Outdoorsman> So I guess adding a number of classes like before10 before20 before30 before40 could work?
00:49:44 <NamelessCoder> the TS options array for FCC lets you define multiple values for CSS classes which can be combined. Name them logically and your site editors should find it quite simple
00:49:45 <Outdoorsman> You have a point and it's a better option going forward.
00:50:48 <NamelessCoder> in the future, it's likely that tooltips, context-sensitive-help, readout fields or similar will be added , letting the dev better explain the options. But really you're VERY free to COMPLETELY redesign the class selector or apply the classes any way you see fit
00:51:57 <Outdoorsman> I think that these are useful enough that it would be nice to ship some of those classes right out of the box to overridden in necessary or maybe in a complimentary extension to FCC that has defaults that would work for most people.
00:52:05 <NamelessCoder> say you add a selector box for "Space below element" which has options 5,10,15 - you then add classes "space-below-5" etc. and in the template, in fcc:tag, set class="{f:if(condition: settings.thatVariable, then: 'space-below-{settings.thatVariable}')}"
00:53:30 <NamelessCoder> here's where I don't agree ;) it takes *minutes* to redefine the current field or add a new one, and imho it absolutely should be a very conscious decision *which* classes you add and how you support them, from site to site.
00:54:04 <NamelessCoder> note that if "class" attribute value results in an empty string, the attribute simply gets removed by fcc:tag
00:54:07 <Outdoorsman> The typical sites I'm making are not HUGE projects so finding a way to get a site up fairly quickly it critical to me being able to make money. So, when 90% of my sites could benefit from something I'd prefer to add it and override it on the 10%.
00:54:35 <NamelessCoder> our intention is to let other packages serve as such basis
00:54:44 <NamelessCoder> for example; fluidcontent_core_bootstrap, etc.
00:54:52 <Outdoorsman> It makes less bloat for sure.
00:55:20 <NamelessCoder> this lets each of those other packages evolve as they should, in sync with the css framework they serve
00:55:21 <Outdoorsman> Ahhhhhhhh... yes, that's what I'm talking about.
00:55:37 <NamelessCoder> and it lets US update much less frequently and not have to support all types of edge cases
00:56:08 <NamelessCoder> so you could be creating your own basis extension for this, with other or additional options that better suit your customers
00:56:24 <NamelessCoder> (and release it of course, so others can benefit if their customers have the same needs)
00:57:17 <NamelessCoder> such an extension can of course also add other content types using fluidcontent, include a set of page templates with a generic HTML structure, include template overlays for EXT:news and much, much more.
00:57:47 <NamelessCoder> the kicker is that if your extension properly depends on all the other extensions, kickstarting your site is a matter of installing that extension ;)
00:57:48 <Outdoorsman> The only thing I don't like about overlays is that even if I just want to update one character in a file, the whole file must be overlaid. Now I have to continually compare to the original source (FCC in this case) to make sure I don't break things.
00:58:24 <Outdoorsman> I wish there were an easy way to handle that. I'm still new to git so maybe there is.
00:58:38 <NamelessCoder> that's true, and a very valid concern. We try to remedy it somewhat, by providing templates that are extremely simple and which should not (knock on wood) require any updates for a long, long time
00:58:51 <NamelessCoder> there's one way but it is not super efficient
00:59:00 <NamelessCoder> say you need to change just one argument value of a viewhelper
00:59:13 <NamelessCoder> obvious examples are paginator's itemsPerPage etc.
00:59:56 <Outdoorsman> The way I've been handling that is manually doing a compare one file at a time in phpstorm.
01:00:28 <NamelessCoder> you really shouldn't need to do that on a regular basis
01:00:43 <NamelessCoder> the exception of course being templates that are under development or in beta state
01:01:39 <Outdoorsman> Is there a way to compare a sparcely populated provider directory with the original extension so that it only looks at files I've overlaid?
01:01:44 <NamelessCoder> but that does give me an idea
01:02:43 <Outdoorsman> I know I'm not the only one with this issue because Magento operates the same way and there a HUGE following there.
01:02:45 <NamelessCoder> the key would be to build an "Info" section sub-module and let it read every plugin.tx_FOOBAR.view location
01:03:21 <NamelessCoder> since this setup can change on any page it needs to be a module based on the page tree, like hte other inspectors in the info module
01:03:31 <NamelessCoder> where would you say such a feature makes most sense?
01:04:56 <Outdoorsman> Are you talking about code? When I think of page tree I think of content in the BE of TYPO3 CMS.
01:05:27 <NamelessCoder> check any typo3 backend, the "Info" module
01:05:47 <NamelessCoder> the sub-modules "Pagetree overview" etc. can be added by extensions
01:06:23 <Outdoorsman> I was thinking of within phpstorm since that's where I'm coding my extensions.
01:06:46 <NamelessCoder> it can be used to render readonly-style info about each page since you can select the target page to gather setup from
01:06:56 <NamelessCoder> well yeah but that's not really possible ;)
01:07:47 <Outdoorsman> I'm feeling a little nervous here because I'm really good at coming up with ideas, but am not at the programming level yet to solve them... we make a great pair ehhh, ha ha.
01:10:03 <Outdoorsman> Something to think about when there's nothing else to do. I do know however, if the workflow could be improved it would save not only both of us time, it could be time mulitplied saved for thousands of devs.
01:10:33 <NamelessCoder> why exactly are you comparing files with originals often?
01:10:50 <Outdoorsman> To make sure my overlays aren't propigating old code.
01:11:19 <NamelessCoder> is this in connection with fluidbootstraptheme?
01:13:07 <NamelessCoder> if the templates are getting big and differences harder to spot, it's good practice to explode it into a handful of partial templates instead. But I understand the concern, of course
01:13:18 <Outdoorsman> That and news for the most part.
01:14:27 <Outdoorsman> Both are getting heavy updates and I have to keep updating to just keep things running.
01:14:33 <NamelessCoder> I don't think there's an easier way than "compare folders" in phpstorm... everything I have to suggest is based on CLI utilities which is what phpstorm does, except with a few clicks instead of complex commands
01:15:12 <Outdoorsman> Hey at least I know what others are doing now too. Thanks man!