11:15:38 <aleah> anyone can tell me the easiest way to create custom elements? is there a possiblity with fedext?
16:26:52 <soee> what was teh argument to put fuidbootstrap pages and content into one extension >?
16:28:03 <NamelessCoder> 1) shared argument scope, 2) using pages without content and vice versa does not create additional resource usage
16:50:09 <soee> NamelessCoder: is there any way to disable using fluidpages when using fluidcontent ?
16:51:45 <soee> so the fluidpages stays as a dependency for fluidbootstrapthem but from inside EM configuration, we can disable usage of fluidpages
16:51:57 <soee> so the rendering is done through stanrard TYPO3
17:19:47 <Torsten85> Hey there... I've exactly this issue here https://github.com/FluidTYPO3/flux/issues/498 does anyone have a clue?
17:29:17 <Torsten85> So registerFluidFlexFormPlugin does currently not work correctly right?
17:49:10 <xaver> Torsten85: clean up means git dev version
17:57:14 <Outdoorsman> I've never asked this question before...
17:59:44 <Outdoorsman> What is the path toward Neos down the road? Will these Fluid extensions be irrelavent or will some of them have a future there too?
18:09:08 <Outdoorsman> Would it be worth a forward port at this point on any of these extensions? I am not a Neos user yet, but yet there are some top notch developers over there and if we can get support from the Neos community there may be even more progress.
18:11:05 <Outdoorsman> I *think* Neos is still lacking a broad set of extensions and I bet you'd get some real buy-in if they were able to have some of the features we are using on an every day basis with the FluidTYPO3 ecosystem.
18:11:34 <Outdoorsman> Neos users are developers by nature still at this point.
18:12:38 <NamelessCoder> soee please ask your question to randomresult and mrboe, I think they were working on something for that exact thing
18:13:13 <NamelessCoder> Outdoorsman it's a very complex question not only because there are this many extensions, but (in very, very general terms):
18:13:54 <NamelessCoder> About 50% of VHS has a purpose there, but the 50% that don't are the most frequently used parts like v:content.render, v:page.menu and similar, CMS-gnostic ViewHelpers
18:14:59 <NamelessCoder> There *are* alternatives for Flow but (again in general terms) the examples I have seen of, just as an example, menu rendering done through ViewHelper arguments, are freaky complex - requiring for example a huge YAML file defining the actual menu instead of that operation being contained inside the ViewHelper
18:16:11 <NamelessCoder> Neos has set a path which very much is intended that every site-specific setup you do, should be done in TypoScript2 (which is similar to, but differs in key aspects from, TypoScript) and EEL which is yet-another-esoteric "extensible language" that
18:16:35 <NamelessCoder> falls into the same trap as the old typoscript-object approach, in my humble and very subjective opinion which nobody seems to agree with
18:17:10 <NamelessCoder> so basically the future of for example v:page.menu inside a Neos context would be "don't - the authors of Neos wants you to use TypoScript2 and EEL"
18:17:13 <Outdoorsman> Wow... great to hear some behind the scenes thoughts here!
18:18:23 <NamelessCoder> the same logic applies to page properties and other contexts: the extensibility concepts in Neos are very unlike the ones in TYPO3 CMS and once again, the main way Neos invites you to add extensibility is through TypoScript2.
18:18:54 <NamelessCoder> I will say this: it's good that this TypoScript2 and EEL is now much easier to version control and is more portable in that it can be package into... well, packages.
18:20:06 <NamelessCoder> but TypoScript2 is a step in the direction of an integrator role, whereas our steps are in the direction of a developer role, as requirement for extensibility.
18:21:20 <Outdoorsman> hmmm... that's a fundamental difference there. Developer versus integrator.
18:21:26 <Denyerec> Any of you guys ever used any "secure download" extensions ? Where FE users log into their own area to download files only meant for them
18:21:39 <NamelessCoder> and its esoteric nature is a mistake; Fluid as a templating language makes absolutely perfect sense but TypoScript2 has little or nothing to do with established standards like HTML and XML (some people will probably disagree with this and claim that EEL lets you do all those things but I argue: another esoteric language on top of an esoteric language to solve common tasks is a crazy idea)
18:23:34 <Denyerec> Unless Typoscript 2 is actually, yknow, not bad ?
18:23:56 <NamelessCoder> another subjective perspective on this: I and FT3 users have not been able to influence the decisions of Neos in a direction closer to our wishes regarding templating and ViewHelpers. Generally there is a big schism between the Flow developer world and the CMS world. To me, it feels like almost all the brain power left the CMS boat in favor of Flow and now no longer care about CMS legacy.
18:24:09 <NamelessCoder> Denyerec it being good or bad is simply not the point here
18:25:21 <NamelessCoder> But you must keep in mind that I am considered biased on this matter. I've spoken out against Flow decisions on multiple occasions and near the end, was perceived as a troll.
18:27:34 <NamelessCoder> My experience of the whole matter is a long digression going on since 2009 in the direction that Flow was relinquished from pretty much all demands of the T3A and was left in the over-engineering hands of coders who, for some, even used the Flow projects in an educational context which I very much disagree with since a practical application is always more relevant than one spawned in a lecture hall.
18:28:24 <NamelessCoder> To be perfectly honest I ignore Neos and Flow completely for the time being.
18:29:53 <Outdoorsman> I certainly HOPE that TS2 is more structured and flexible than it is now. I haven't really looked at it much yet.
18:30:06 <Outdoorsman> Current TS Likes... it seamlessly upgrades with TYPO3 CMS, and OS upgrades. Current dislikes... it's exceedingly difficult (for me) do do logic or variable oriented with pure TS.
18:30:43 <NamelessCoder> EEL requires you to do even more of that
18:30:44 <Outdoorsman> In short, the negatives outweight the positives.
18:33:07 <NamelessCoder> here is, since I mentioned it, the Flow alternative to v:page.menu - https://github.com/kaystrobach/FLOW.Menu
18:33:26 <NamelessCoder> I'll let you decide which is more elegang
18:41:40 <Outdoorsman> What's up with that old numbering system again. I NEVER liked that.
18:46:48 <Outdoorsman> Well it's time to digest what you wrote here. I was not familiar with some of the things you brought up here so will do some sideline research. Thank you so much for some feedback. Hopefully it will help others too since this is logged!
19:15:49 <Denyerec> Well Outdoorsman, it's just an array
19:15:57 <Denyerec> so they just use numeric indexes for organisation
19:16:08 <Denyerec> not particularly intuitive when you're tricked into forgetting its an array, though.
21:23:03 <Outdoorsman> Denyerec: Thanks for the tip on the array thing... that actually does help me feel a littler better about it and I hadn't thought of it that way. The perfectionist in me tends to cringe when I'm looking up seemingly arbitrary (array) numbers to override things in the RTE, or whatever. I would prefer a camelCase var name or something more intuitive where it makes sense... numbers do make sense sometimes too.